RALEIGH — A series of heated exchanges took place between lawmakers and the director of the state’s hurricane recovery agency during a subcommittee hearing on Thursday.
The Joint Legislative Commission on Governmental Operations’ Subcommittee on Hurricane Response and Recovery met Jan. 30 for just over four hours, with the majority of the hearing spent grilling North Carolina Office of Recovery and Resilience (NCORR) Director Pryor Gibson.
Members of the subcommittee, including co-chairs Sen. Brent Jackson (R-Sampson) and Rep. Brendan Jones (R-Columbus), raised questions about NCORR’s money issues and continued inability to finish nearly 1,200 homes for victims of Hurricanes Matthew (2016) and Florence (2018).
During his sworn testimony, Gibson provided a presentation to lawmakers that included the status of 1,179 homes needing completion with a total unmet cost of $187 million. The presentation showed 540 homes included in that figure are still not under construction and 639 were in some stage of construction.
Gibson said NCORR’s total of unmet funding needs was now at $216,569,179 and also shared that funding uncertainty has slowed contract awards and Notices to Proceed (NTP) and said, “Contractors don’t think they’re going to be paid.”
It was revealed in September in former Gov. Roy Cooper’s Hurricane Helene funding proposal that NCORR had a budget shortfall of $175 million. In the months that followed, that figure rose to $230 million, with the General Assembly approving $80 million in November.
“So we’re now eight years out from Hurricane Matthew, six years from Florence, and we still have families across this state waiting for a home. This is unacceptable,” Jones told Gibson at the beginning of the hearing. “The people of North Carolina had enough of in court broken promises and mismanagement. Let’s be clear, this is not our first committee meeting on your failures. This is our fourth. After four hearings, we’re still seeking the exact same questions.”
Jones recounted how NCORR’s former director, Laura Hogshead, went on the record stating the agency could complete its work for less than $265 million, including the $80 million NCORR had already received from the General Assembly.
“Additionally, you told us on record that you needed $40 million per month for three months, plus the $25 million for the next eight to fix the financial disaster that NCORR created,” Jones said to Gibson. “By record, Rep. Johnson asked you point blank if that would solve the problem. And your answer was, ‘Yes, sir.’ And most importantly, you promised today to give us a closing date for when this program will finally be done.
“That’s why we’re here today — because none of it’s happened,” Jones continued. “Instead, this is what we’ve seen: NCORR has stopped issuing new contracts, stopped issuing notices to proceed, and the production has grinded to a halt. And now instead of the $265 million we were told it was the maximum needed, it’s our understanding you’re asking for $300 million.”
Gibson responded by apologizing to the families waiting for homes, and said, “Chairman Jones is exactly right. It’s unexcusable.”
Hogshead was asked to resign during the subcommittee’s prior meeting on Nov. 18. She refused at that time, but the N..C Department of Public Safety — under which NCORR is housed — issued a statement just days later that Hogshead was no longer employed. Gibson, who had been Cooper’s senior legislative adviser, was installed by the governor to fix NCORR’s issues in January 2024.
Throughout the over three hours lawmakers questioned Gibson about a timeline for home completions and associated costs, the NCORR director said multiple times that the projects would be complete by the end of 2025, but only if the agency gets the “dependable” funding it needs and if contractors don’t leave.
“I want you to hear very clearly, Mr. Chairman and members of the committee and public, we desperately need a dependable source. Whatever amount it is, we’re hoping it’s enough to finish,” said Gibson. He added that if the over $216.6 million needed wasn’t allocated by June or July, then he could not promise completion.
“We will not only lose our contractors, but we’re already in a free fall with key personnel in our operation,” Gibson said. “We won’t have anybody in the Eastern Recovery office to complete them.”
Jones restated Gibson’s earlier comments about needing eight months to fix NCORR’s financial issues before pressing him for a closing date.
“You promised us a closing date for this operation, and you said you would provide a closing date at this meeting. Do you have a closing date?” Jones asked.
Gibson didn’t answer that question but instead reiterated NCORR needs “$40 million a month for the next three months and the remaining $25 million.”
At that point, Jones told Gibson, “No more vague estimates. No more kicking the can down the road. You gave the figure for today, but you’re saying it does not include certain things. So it’s actually not a real figure.”
Jones added, “It looks like y’all are probably in full-blown panic mode trying to figure out what to do.”
Jones also criticized Gibson for trying to blame the legislature for funding, saying it was NCORR’s fault and citing the agency’s mismanagement and NTPs as well as inaccurate cost estimates and project metrics.
“We’re not the problem. You know we’re not the problem,” Jones said. “And if you’re a movie buff, kind of like I am, you’ve seen ‘Groundhog Day.’
“Mr. Chairman, (I) understand what you’re saying,” Gibson replied. “You’re appropriately scratching on my hiney for spending too much money. But now you’re scratching on my hiney because I’m not issuing notices to proceed and making the situation worse. I mean, let’s figure that out.”
“But you know what’s more important, Mr. Chairman, is solving the problems for the 1,150 families, two-thirds of which are in your district,” Gibson said. “I want to do that. They’re my people too.”
There was some back and forth about the number of NTPs issued in January, with Jones responding he had emails from Dec. 11 that said NTPs would halt.
“You personally came and took me out the chamber, as well as Chairman Bell. You said, ‘If you tell me to go, it’s done.’ Did we have that conversation?” asked Jones.
“Yes, sir,” replied Gibson.
“It ain’t done!,” Jones said in an elevated tone. “I mean, you give us the money, we’ll do it. You come back, give us the money, we’ll do it. When does it stop, director? We can’t keep doing this. This has been one of the biggest shams on the North Carolina taxpayers that’s ever taken place.”
“Mr. Chairman, there’s been over $750 million dollars …” Gibson began to say before Jones interrupted him.
“I’m not saying y’all had pissed money away because you have,” Jones said.
Gibson said he heard what Jones was saying and thanked him for the additional funds already given to NCORR, but said he couldn’t alter what happened before he took over.
“You can’t change the course of history, but somebody has got to be held accountable,” Jones said. “We can’t keep doing this.
Jones then pressed Gibson again for a completion date to put in the record.
“I’ve already said on record, Mr. Chairman, it’s my belief and I will commit to get the Eastern Recovery finished in 2025 if we get appropriate funding to do it,” Gibson said. “I wish I could guarantee I could get all 1,150 homes there, but I’ll do the best that can humanly be possible.
“But in the same voice, hear me, sir. If the contractor infrastructure falls apart, there’s no way we can do that even with all the money up front today,” Gibson continued. “So please hear me clearly: Give us some kind of allowance that we can keep the contractor infrastructure in place so that we can complete as many homes as we can with the appropriation that you see fit.”
Jones then pressed Gibson a third time, with Gibson responding. “I will commit to getting every single home I can by ’25. And I think I can get the greatest majority of them. I cannot tell you if it’ll be 1,150, but it will be close.”
The bubcommittee closed out the remaining 25 minutes by hearing an abbreviated presentation from members of Gov. Josh Stein’s newly created Governor’s Recovery Office for Western North Carolina (GROW NC). The presentation outlined the purpose of GROW NC but had a focus on “lessons learned” from NCORR’s failings.
